Worst-case scenario in NJ divorce...

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Re: Worst-case scenario in NJ divorce...

Postby atoice » Sun May 20, 2012 10:23 am

mcc333 wrote:atoice,

#1 - I agree with other poster on exclusive use and possession. First of all, whose name is the mortgage/title deed in. This is not too important if you can get the judge to grant the exclusive use and possession. However, it's a slippery slope. Along with EU and P, the judge\lawyers will want to establish a care schedule for your son since you will be in separate abodes. This temporary custody schedule ends up being the permanent schedule probably more than 80% of the time so you need to take it very seriously.
Yes, it's a pain in the arss living with MIL and STBX but deal with that temporary pain rather than screw yourself on the custody.

#2 - Document your parenting and be prepared to make your arguments to a custody evaluator. However, I will caution you here. Custody is not decided by who cooks better food for the kids. I felt the same way you do and documented to the hilt. Believe me, neither the CE's nor the judge cared at all. These folks do not concern themselves with the day to day. To win your argumetn for custody, focus on your flexibilty to parent more often than her based on your employment. Be prepared to present the support structure you have in place when you have to be a way for an afternoon or business trip (parents, neibors siblings). She has a one up on you with the MIL, you need to counter. Have you enrolled your son in swimming lessons, park district acitivites, etc? This shows your concern on development. Have you in the past or currently set up play dates with neighbor kids, friends?

#3 - Sounds like you're already settling for EOW. Do not. You need to push hard for that 4/3 that another poster indicated.

BTW - what orders due you have in place after 25k in lawyer fees? You should have something for that amount.


1. I would love to try a motion for EU and P. I wish we had a temp plan in place. If so, I would probably leave the house myself. Let her deal with the responsibilities. She already pays the mortgage and taxes on the house. I pay for the all bills. As for living with the MIL and NJ/STBX, I get it. I only do it of course for the son.

2. I have been documenting my parenting since January. Well, the day to day is what I actually worried about. While she was in busy season for work (CPA), I got to handle everything. Since then, she dominates and has me do nothing and can back it cause MIL is hawking everything as well. I'm trying to keep myself at peace so no BS calls to police are done. Although, that could help my cause I suppose. As for flexiblity: it will show that I have been picking him up early. But now she is doing the same cause she knows that is my point of emphasis. As for support system: the MIL lives 5 hours away. I could have one here in the near term as a close friend is moving to the area with her kids. I haven't enrolled him in activities, due to the constant bickering of what I want vs. hers. As for development: take him to nature centers, library, and such. I like the idea of swimming lessons, but dealing with "her." As for play-dates, yes, I have set him up with a few. the STBX hasn't set one up before. Also documented and pics.

As for what 25k gets you...NADA! Fired the first lawyer...I got normal paperwork filing with the court, CIS, trying to set up In-house rules to alleviate fighting, working on the financial informal interrogatories, pissing and moaning between lawyers. Parenting Expert is 8k of that. She has her own expert. With the CE involved: looking at another 3 months before even remotely have a chance to get the F out.

I have tried to get a motion for the MIL to get kicked out. Lawyer doesn't think the judge will support it. And she wants MIL in house to show the stbx cannot do it on her own. I get both sides of it.

I did find out: my lawyer and neighbor (divorced and got 50/50) are saying worst case scenario for me is every other weekend and 1 night a week. That is the bare minimum for joint physical custody...running about 30%. Hoping spousal support can be used as leverage to gain more custody of my Wingman.
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Re: Worst-case scenario in NJ divorce...

Postby mcc333 » Sun May 20, 2012 12:39 pm

have tried to get a motion for the MIL to get kicked out. Lawyer doesn't think the judge will support it. And she wants MIL in house to show the stbx cannot do it on her own. I get both sides of it.


Lawyer doesn't want to argue and lose to the judge. Push for getting MIL out. Get a look at how the lawyer can perform so you know before it's all on the line. If the lawyer wants to prove the ex can't do it on her own, then get the MIL out to prove it. Keeping the MIL in only means "we don't know if she can do it on her own" and that means you have no argument.

I did find out: my lawyer and neighbor (divorced and got 50/50) are saying worst case scenario for me is every other weekend and 1 night a week. That is the bare minimum for joint physical custody...running about 30%.
Exactly right - worst case EOW. You're satisfied with worst case?? If so, draw the papers up yourself, have the SBTX sign it, and go into court and present an agreed order to the judge and be done.

Hoping spousal support can be used as leverage to gain more custody of my Wingman.
Not sure of your thinking here. You are wanting to give her spousal support in order to get more time with your son? You expect her to give you spousal support and will reduce it or give it up for time with your son? I don't think you know that spousal support is not even on the table. In my state, you have to be married for 10 years before spousal support could come into play, your marriage is only 3. Secondly, you are both making good money, certainly adequate to maintain a single lifestyle. Why would a judge order either of you to pay spousal to the other? It makes no sense.
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You're never going to keep me down" - Chumbawamba
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Re: Worst-case scenario in NJ divorce...

Postby atoice » Sun May 20, 2012 1:07 pm

I have addressed it with the lawyer on getting the MIL out. I will revisit this week as I am sure I will be speaking to her again.

I am not satisfied with the worst case of 2/7 give or take. But at least I know what I am up against. She went to mediation saying she gets every day, and I get "some" time any day when she feels it's ok.

We moved from FL for her career. I was making a lot more money than I am now and living in a more expensive area. I agree that we make decent money. But both lawyers said that I would get something out of it. And yes, her lawyer would fight the duration of marriage. But if I get anything, I would like to exchange for another day or two. Believe it or not, you're saying my salary would be a good life in Jersey, being close to my S2...I would be living paycheck to paycheck where we live now in a 2 br apt.
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Re: Worst-case scenario in NJ divorce...Update

Postby atoice » Thu May 31, 2012 7:47 pm

Hey everyone...only because I feel a good sense of community here..just a brief update.

Parenting experts involved and I have made my visits to both twice.

Her parenting expert: doesn't understand why I'm there. Took the MMPI-2 test. Rocked it according to him. He loves my plan for custody. I am still weary because of the fact he is retained by her.

My parenting expert: well-known and has worked with hers and is working with her guy on 4 other cases. While she is a little more serious, she quoted my NJ custody arrangement as 7 nights a week with her.

Still battling the In-house rules and I am being passive about a lot of things. Trying to take the high road overall, but being sneaky on some stuff. Recording of course..and the NJ patted me down! :o

My new counsel still stands as 4/14 overnights is my worst-case scenario, and I would pay her $45 a week in support, and proration of salary to medical insurance and daycare for my S2. My new counsel also tells me to be a < male genitalia > with anything I want. LOL I don't think I have it in me...but the NJ is pushing me closer to doing this she won't like. And then I may get the In-house rules set up.

Hoping all is well with you. Any words of encouragement are appreciated.
Last edited by atoice on Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Worst-case scenario in NJ divorce...Update

Postby Trevor » Thu May 31, 2012 9:00 pm

atoice wrote:I am being passive about a lot of things.

atoice wrote:Recording of course..and the NJ patted me down!

Being passive is a losing proposition in most cases. Go out and get your goals.
Seriously, you allowed her to pat you down? Please tell us that was a joke.
Dual Parenting, not Duel Parenting.
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Re: Worst-case scenario in NJ divorce...

Postby atoice » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:33 pm

No on the pat-down..I did not let her. She did it while I was reading him a bedtime story. Her mother did it to me a few weeks ago as well! They're both fit to be in a straight-jacket.

Yes...I am starting to take a different approach on passiveness. I am working the logistics of it. We are close on the In-house rules, but if she stalls, that's when I will start forcing the cards.
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Re: Worst-case scenario in NJ divorce...update

Postby atoice » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:04 am

Hello gentlemen!! A small update for you guys:

STBX is still a wack-job...MIL is still here. They left for July 4th thru 7th...but I get all Labor Day weekend 31st thru 3rd.

STBX no wants to focus on getting my out of house instead of In-house rules to keep the peace. She offered me 4 overnights! :) LOL The kicker is in her lawyer's letter, "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" prior to parenting experts evaluations. I don't know wth she is thinking since that is my worst case...why give me that offer? She's a woman...

With the 4 out of 14: I would pay $45 a week in CS! Give me 7 and I will pay the same thing!

Have her on recording during a bedtime story with my s2: whistling, clapping, and interrupting/talking during this time. I have video of her and her mom jumping in front of TV while the S2 and I watch Lion King for 10 minutes!

Her parenting expert told me 50/50: and called her lawyer to inform him. His advice was doing 2 days on and 2 days off...your thoughts?

His report will be ready by the end of the month. Her lawyer was a jerk Friday talking about getting a TRO or DV against me...then on Monday called my attorney saying they want to work something out.

My parenting expert won't be ready until mid to end of August. I have a meeting with her next week with my s2 for observation. If she wants more, an in-home will be done.

Any comments are always welcome as usual!

She is trying to get me moved out before my family comes in 2 weeks! :) My sisters, brother, mom, and nephews are coming to the house to spend time with her and her mother as well! :) She is stressing.

Just try to remind myself: RADIO SILENCE is golden... :)
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Re: Worst-case scenario in NJ divorce...

Postby Fatheroffour » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:35 am

Her parenting expert told me 50/50: and called her lawyer to inform him. His advice was doing 2 days on and 2 days off...your thoughts?


Some say that the child shouldn't be away from the other parent for more days than they are years old so 2/2 for your 2 year old would be appropriate if you agree with that line of thinking. When my youngest was 2 we were doing a week on week off, which I think provided more stability and far fewer exchanges, which were always a problem. BUT, I had 4 kids and they traveled in a pack so they always had each other. Maybe it made a difference.

If you agree with the 2/2 I would write into the plan that it would step up to 3/3 then 4/4 and so on at the birthdays until you get to week on week off if that's the plan you are looking for.
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Re: Worst-case scenario in NJ divorce...

Postby blueTexas » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:47 am

Atoice, from reading your last post it appears as if your stbx and lawyer are compromising big time, due to your hard work. Good job! Keep it up.
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Re: Worst-case scenario in NJ divorce...

Postby aero_8 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:44 am

If they're trying to pat you down, tell them to stop immediately. If they keep it up, call the police. Unwanted physical contact is assault.
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