Overnight "guests" and how courts view this clause in orders

Parental Alienation Syndrome, Malicious Mother Syndrome, dealing with the ex, and various other non-legal concerns throughout the process.

Re: Overnight "guests" and how courts view this clause in or

Postby jeroboam » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:02 am

I wish I had an overnight "guest". My ex wife was the only girl I dated and we were together 10 years. I'm 31 now and have no idea what to do lol. Sorry for Hijacking this thread. Please continue.

I was thinking I should have had a clause like this in my decree but I live in GA.
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Re: Overnight "guests" and how courts view this clause in or

Postby wcd9973 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:12 am

In VA adultery is still a crime. Also in VA, until you are actually divorced, its adultery. Now yes, she would have to prove it, but its civil, not criminal here.
So the fact that you have a women, who is clearly your GF, spending time with you and staying over...well, that's def a preponderance of the evidence.

What does your lawyer say? Are you all filling no fault or did she file for cause (Adultery). My lawyer was pretty clear - Adultery will not effect custody UNLESS you have involved your kids. She stated, in no uncertain terms, until you are actually divorced, do NOT introduce your kids to any GF.

Your ex only has to show that you committed adultery (seems pretty easy from the few facts you have mentioned) and that you have allowed your child to be involved. You need to take steps ASAP to fix this.

As many have said in many posts in many topics - Forget what you think is fair, or just, or anything. Throw it out the window. Decide what is more important to you and take the correct steps to achieve your goal.
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Re: Overnight "guests" and how courts view this clause in or

Postby BubbaGumpShrimp » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:25 am

wcd9973 wrote:In VA adultery is still a crime. Also in VA, until you are actually divorced, its adultery. Now yes, she would have to prove it, but its civil, not criminal here.
So the fact that you have a women, who is clearly your GF, spending time with you and staying over...well, that's def a preponderance of the evidence.

What does your lawyer say? Are you all filling no fault or did she file for cause (Adultery). My lawyer was pretty clear - Adultery will not effect custody UNLESS you have involved your kids. She stated, in no uncertain terms, until you are actually divorced, do NOT introduce your kids to any GF.

Your ex only has to show that you committed adultery (seems pretty easy from the few facts you have mentioned) and that you have allowed your child to be involved. You need to take steps ASAP to fix this.

As many have said in many posts in many topics - Forget what you think is fair, or just, or anything. Throw it out the window. Decide what is more important to you and take the correct steps to achieve your goal.


Bingo. I filed in VA, as well. VA is NOT fair, where family law is concerned. Let's put it this way...I have no kids "of the marriage," have been married less than a year, and I'll be doing good to get my wife out of MY HOUSE in three months (will have to shut off the power and/or stop paying the mortgage to do so).

I attemted to get a protective order, but was essentially laughed at by the magistrate. So yeah...I'm less than a month into this process and as far as I'm concerned, VA can lick my taint. I'm absolutely floored by how twisted the process is in favor of the wife. She's living in MY HOUSE for FREE, harassing me on a regular basis via text, phone call, and email, and there's not a goddamn thing that I can do about it. :lol:

I filed under "no-fault" and irreconcilable differences. I left and moved 500 miles away to stay with family. If I were to date...it would be considered adultery. For that reason alone (aside from how f-ed up my situation is), I wouldn't date. That could be the difference between getting a no-fault divorce and her being able to counter-file a fault based divorce under the grounds that I had been adulterous.

I don't see that introducing your daughter to your GF is going to do you any favors. If anything...your wife could claim that you started dating her before you separated. How are you going to prove that you didn't?
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Re: Overnight "guests" and how courts view this clause in or

Postby finallyhappyhere » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:49 am

You are all right to a degree. The fact in VA is that to prove adultery you need proof. Photos, witnesses etc. It can't be an assumption and it's very difficult to prove. Va is one of the few States where you can plead the 5th and not have it count against you regarding adultery.

Also, there have been several VA cases reversed on appeal that state an adulterous relationship or cohabitation must clearly prove to be detrimental to the child and that the courts cannot merely assign custody based on adultery or cohabitation. All facts, environments etc must be considered. If the GAL has not done due diligence in asking those questions, the report is not complete, concise nor does it provide the evidence in bringing any of those facts to light.

Fortunately, the law is black and white. VA takes the child's best interests into consideration first and foremost. In most situations, that sort of relationship does not harm the child in any way. Other factors such as financial stability, relationship between child and parent and overall lifestyle count much more in determining custody.
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Re: Overnight "guests" and how courts view this clause in or

Postby wcd9973 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:53 am

finallyhappyhere wrote:You are all right to a degree. The fact in VA is that to prove adultery you need proof. Photos, witnesses etc. It can't be an assumption and it's very difficult to prove. Va is one of the few States where you can plead the 5th and not have it count against you regarding adultery.

Also, there have been several VA cases reversed on appeal that state an adulterous relationship or cohabitation must clearly prove to be detrimental to the child and that the courts cannot merely assign custody based on adultery or cohabitation. All facts, environments etc must be considered. If the GAL has not done due diligence in asking those questions, the report is not complete, concise nor does it provide the evidence in bringing any of those facts to light.

Fortunately, the law is black and white. VA takes the child's best interests into consideration first and foremost. In most situations, that sort of relationship does not harm the child in any way. Other factors such as financial stability, relationship between child and parent and overall lifestyle count much more in determining custody.


Do you have a lawyer? What are they telling you?

I would bet anything your lawyer is saying "Stop introducing your GF to your child until your divorced"

See this link
http://www.vadivorceonline.com/vapages/ ... nts.asp#11


Most adultery cases are proven by circumstantial evidence, which means that you have to establish that your spouse had the disposition and opportunity to commit adultery.

Public displays of affection, such as hand-holding, kissing, and hugging, between the guilty spouse and the paramour are generally sufficient evidence to indicate an adulterous disposition. Opportunity may be proven by showing that your spouse was seen entering the paramour's apartment at 11 P.M. and not coming out until 8 A.M. the following morning and that they were alone. If you can only prove disposition but not opportunity, the courts may not allow your divorce because the court may reason that it is just mere speculation. The same is true if you only show that there was opportunity, but cannot prove disposition. When you think about it, this seems to make sense.
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Re: Overnight "guests" and how courts view this clause in or

Postby Trevor » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:58 am

finallyhappyhere wrote:there have been several VA cases reversed on appeal that state an adulterous relationship or cohabitation must clearly prove to be detrimental to the child

...so whether the destruction of the marriage by the adulterous parent is detrimental to the children of that marriage is still under debate? What color is the sky in that world?

finallyhappyhere wrote:In most situations, that sort of relationship does not harm the child in any way. Other factors such as financial stability, relationship between child and parent and overall lifestyle count much more in determining custody.

The destruction of the marriage by the adulterous parent is linked inextricably to the ruin of that household's finances and lifestyle, to say nothing of the interpersonal dynamic between the parents of that household. Is there such a thing as gravity on your planet?

[Edit: I know the poster is not saying his relationship was the cause of the marital failure, so my context might not square perfectly with his situation...playing with fire]
Dual Parenting, not Duel Parenting.
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Re: Overnight "guests" and how courts view this clause in or

Postby Fatheroffour » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:01 am

Meanwhile, back on the farm, dads figuring out how to stop the bleeding after he's shot himself in the foot.
Everyone lies.
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Re: Overnight "guests" and how courts view this clause in or

Postby BartSimpson » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:38 am

Test Question: Select the most correct answer -

When the GAL is dead-set against your girlfriend living with you during the divorce:

A. Cupcake is promptly moved out so as to deal with the GAL's position and improve image and rapport.
B. Deny any Adultery, claim roommates, since they need a sex-tape of you and Cupcake for proof.
C. Claim that the Child is so involved with Cupcake that it is the cornerstone of the Paternal relationship.
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― my neighbor Jack
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Re: Overnight "guests" and how courts view this clause in or

Postby BubbaGumpShrimp » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:47 am

finallyhappyhere wrote:You are all right to a degree. The fact in VA is that to prove adultery you need proof. Photos, witnesses etc. It can't be an assumption and it's very difficult to prove. Va is one of the few States where you can plead the 5th and not have it count against you regarding adultery.


Lol. Seriously. Your daughter referrs to her as your GF and you think that your STBX won't be able to prove it? lol.

Your STBX's attorney- "Daughter...does daddy co-habitate with a member of the opposite sex that he thinks of as his GF?"

Daughter- "Yes."

There's your "proof." Yeah...that's what your lawyer was getting at.

Seriously...get the woman out of your house or it will not work out well for you.
Last edited by BubbaGumpShrimp on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Overnight "guests" and how courts view this clause in or

Postby defaultuser » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:47 am

Isn't there some kind of forum rule that says the thread will be locked after 50 replies or something?

This one has jumped the shark.
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