Help! The Mom is trying for joint custody of my teenagers

[james34]

Hey all, my name is J. I need help and would appreciate if someone can shed some light. I've googled, and talked to my lawyer but all he seems is to ask me my stance on the situation and I don't know what stance to take.

This divorce has been going on about 2 years now, right now my two sons, aged 14 (turning 15 this year), and 16 live with me and I'm a fulltime dad. She does not make her < parenting time >, and lives in the city. But she's doing it mostly to stop her child support payments.

The boys do not want joint custody, the 16 year old just made varsity and the 14yr old is jv. They are busy with sports and school and don't see no purpose for it, they make excellent grades, and are doing fine. It's been 2 years and they are comfortable in this arrangement. When I bring it up, they are not angry about anything but simply say, they don't want to live with her.

Today I just got a letter from my lawyer (that I'm paying way too much for) stating that her lawyer is still pushing for joint custody and want the boys to go to counseling because she feels I am influencing them to stay with me. o_O

From a legal standpoint, can they really force my boys to go to counseling (which will probably just make them more mad). If I say no, they don't want to go to counseling, what will happen? How can I go about this without looking like the bad guy?
I just want this to be over, she's not going to stop her lifestyle anyway to be able to do joint custody. What can I do!?

Thanks brothers of dadsdivorce.com lol
J
We are in illinois btw.

[Fatheroffour]

In my state I could say yes to such a request and not one thing would change in the day to day life of the kids.

Do you mean she is asking for a 50/50 time split? What would change if she gets 'joint custody'?

[RC211V]

I don't have any personal experience, but I've always heard at that age their opinion is a major factor. Can't see making kids that age go to counseling really either, unless they are having serious problems, but maybe it wouldn't be a big deal to let them go and have a report that they are doing well and a recommendation not to change the situation?

Illinois seems to have weird laws though too (again, from what I've heard here on the board) so I don't know. Other guys will post.

Might want to minimize the personal info you post (name and specific location) if privacy is an issue at all.

[Thermite]

Welcome aboard.

First off, to get to the crux of your question, are you talking about joint legal custody, or physical custody? Joint legal custody just means she can have access to their records & have input on major life decisions, though in practice, the primary custodian is still firmly in the driver's seat.

I don't think Illinois officially recognizes a "joint custody" situation where the kids' time is split evenly between households. Here, if she has every other weekend "< parenting time >", that's considered joint custody.

My marriage lasted about 19 years,

Good thing our state isn't too big on alimony. If she's been living on her own for 2 years already, that should also help settle any issue with this before it even comes up.

She does not make her < parenting time >, ...her lawyer is still pushing for joint custody and want the boys to go to counseling because she feels I am influencing them to stay with me.

If she doesn't even exercise the < parenting time > she has now, I don't see how she has a chance at getting more. Especially if you can show they're still getting good grades & doing well with you. But the second part could be cause for concern. Illinois uses numerous factors to determine who is the better parent to have primary custody. One of those is deciding who will make sure the kids maintain a healthy relationship with the other parent. Do you have documented proof that you've encouraged them to visit their mom? Phone records showing they call her now & then? Ever emailed her asking why she never showed up? Etc?

But she's doing it mostly to stop her child support payments.

So, reading between the lines here, she was ordered to pay temporary child support until the divorce is finalized, right? Has she been keeping up with those payments, or did she stop paying? Illinois bases child support on net earnings (25% for 2 kids, if I'm remembering correctly). Her living expenses have absolutely zero to do with it, so what's her angle there?

The boys do not want joint custody, the 16 year old just made varsity and the 14yr old is jv. They are busy with sports and school and don't see no purpose for it, they make excellent grades, and are doing fine. It's been 2 years and they are comfortable in this arrangement.

There is little the courts can do to force teenagers to see someone they don't want to. I suspect things wouldn't change significantly even if your STBX had more parenting time on paper. Can't go to mom's this weekend, 'cause I don't wanna miss the game...

If it came down to it, do you think they would tell a judge in open court that they don't want to live with their mom? (They're old enough to do so now.) If so, they can tell their mom the same thing to her face, which would hopefully squash her bid for custody. If not, then perhaps it wouldn't be all bad to have them see a counselor who could essentially testify on their behalf.

[jamessick]

You seem to have a whole lot of status quo on your side with the arrangements being the way they have been. Most judges don't like to change what is obviously working. Secondly, in most states, children have a say after a certain age, which your 16yo has reached for sure. Most courts won't split up sibs either. If she hasn't been making her support payments anyway, what's the difference of her having joint custody? Nothing changes. If the 16yo doesn't want to live with her, he's not going to. HE will make that decision.

[james34]

Thanks everyone!!!!

Fatheroffour, thermite.
She primarily wants to have equal decision, say so, records, rights etc, to them. Which the boys don't want. But if she could do so where she can physical custody (they stay with her have the time) as well she will go for that too (just to aggravate me o_O)

[Fatheroffour]

I don't see a problem with the records access. That's the norm in my state.

I don't know how it's handled there but here joint legal would be the norm with one parent, you, with final decision making authority in the major areas of medical, educational, extracurricular and religion.

Maybe you can word something similar, throw her a bone and trade an expensive court fight for a document with no real teeth.

I'm sure some others with more Illinois knowledge will chime in.

[epsilon]

Even with sole, the other parent still has the right to access everything.

Joint means you both are deemed capable of making day to day decisions when the children are in your care. Which won't mean much if they are hardly in her care.

Joint also means you consult each other for major decisions. It's usually written that if the two of you disagree then it goes to either court or an arbitrator. But you can have it written that in the event of a disagreement then you have final say. Mine is written that way - I need to consult her and get her input but I have final say.

I don't see the point in fighting over this designation. It really doesn't mean much.

[Thoughts?]

You stated that she wants this to allow it to influence her CS. The only way it would impact CS is if there's a change in time in possession, meaning that the boys would say split time 50-50. If she's historically not exercised her time, then she has very little case, and will likely lose.

Re decision making, check to see what the default is in your state, and if it's joint legal, then that's what the judge's are used to seeing.

However, she'll have two hurdles to overcome in either case -- showing change of circumstances, and showing best interests of the children. In this situation, unless she's like moved into their school district, doubtful that she'll be able to show change in circs. And if she can, if the boys take a strong stand they don't want it and are not being influenced, then she'll get no headway that direction.

On the counseling, are they thriving? I mean, attending school wo issue, getting good grades, etc.? Are you influencing them? In other words, have you supported them seeing their mother when orders allow her to? Would would they say in a judge's chambers when asked?

Your attorney is required to convey her attorney's requests. You're still the final decision maker.

[james34]

Epsilon, so for example if this turns into joint, but they still obviously live with
me 100% of the time and I still have the final say but still have to consult her?
I'm not really legal savvy, but it just don't make no sense. You are right it really
doesn't mean much, for the fact that for all those years, we have never had a problem
with rearing our children and me making the final decision when they were younger.
Mind you, I have no problem with her, she can talk to them, hang out with them do whatever
without having this big ol battle.
These are teenaged boys, there's pretty much no big decision making, all they do
is basketball school and friends, so unless she's going to start coaching them
and going to basketball clinics, then I see no point. *frustrated*