can judge force alimony if wife doesn't ask

[sco]

Married 15yrs, 4kids 14, 14, 6, 3, I make $47k, she works on and off throughout the marriage, made 19k last year and has made up to $40k in the past at one time, we live in Ohio.

I pay child support, I give her 1/2 of my 401k ($3500 lump sum buy out), I pay medical dental, I will pay 25% ($280) of the house monthly mortgage for 1yr that she lives in with the kids until sold, I take on 75% of the community debt, BUT WE AGREE ON NO ALIMONY.

Question is Can the judge go against our agreement in our pro se dissolution and order me to pay spousal support because of our income discrepancy and years of marriage????

We have a final hearing in 2 weeks, and I'm wondering should I play it safe and go with $200 monthly for 2 years alimony instead of judge dropping $??? for 5 years which is the norm for a 15yr marriage, so I've heard. Wife is in cooperation cause she trust me financially to be there for her and the kids beyond child support, but the JUDGES DON'T GIVE A CRAP.

[BartSimpson]

So it's all the Judges' fault, huh?

[sco]

you lost me there??? but not necessarily the judges' fault, although I've heard some horrible stories about some... I think it's those irresponsible moms and dads that force the judicial system to apply a general black and white rule to every case. I know I'm a responsible person and will provide financially with or without court papers, but they don't know that.

[minuette]

If you and your wife have come to an agreement regarding spousal support, that agreement should be reflected in your stipulated judgment or marital settlement agreement in a way that the state recognizes as valid. Not because the judge will take it upon himself to award spousal support (doubtful; spousal support is not looked at the the same way as child support, with guidelines and presumptions of support obligations), but because you should protect your long-term financial interests.

Examples: I divorced in California. In my MSA, my husband and I included a clause that specifically terminated the jurisdiction of the court to award spousal support. In Colorado, IIRC, waiver of spousal support and termination of jurisdiction must be signed as a specific and separate agreement in order to be valid.

So, Question #1 is what language is required by your state in order to waive spousal support and terminate the jurisdiction of the court to award it? Question #2 is do you have that language in your stipulated judgment or MSA?

At this point, it may be worth it for you to sit down and pay a family law attorney for two hours of time, to go through the stipulated judgment or MSA point by point to confirm that it says exactly what you want it to say and give you a clause (if not there already) covering the waiver and termination of jurisdiction with regard to spousal support.

[BartSimpson]

That Black and White Rule applied by Judges is rather simple: In The Best Interest of The Children.

Being a parent is far more than a financial obligation, and Judges spend more time dealing with those custodial elements than the dissolution of money matters. Frankly, the money matters are formulas and calculations, determining what information to input is all the Judge does.

You may be prejudice against Judges, but the reality is you have to go before one and his/her decisions will be based on the best interests of the children. There is a lot of history of decisions in that courtroom and most local attorneys will know what the inclinations of that Judge are. It's not too late to consult one.

If the Judge does not know how responsibile you are, it's your fault, not the Judge's. You need to work on your elevator pitch - you have about 30 seconds to convince him/her. Demonstrating your involvement in the kid's lives - school, activities, medical, and entertainment - we recommend a journal.

[sco]

minouette, the language is:
"Neither party shall receive spousal support from the other and each party waives all claims for spousal support. This provision shall not be modifiable. The Court shall not retain jurisdiction over spousal support".
and I did include it in our separation agreement.

Good info Bart, I'll keep that in mind.

[FortheChildren]

Did not see what state. Here in MI once you have a signed MSA it falls under contract law and takes it out of the judges hands. For the final judgment paperwork you basicly add your MSA word for word into it. Also there is a standardized spousal support form from FOC you have to fill out and both of you sign that you add to the final judgment.
The only issue you might have is if the judge ordered a FOC financial review and they recommended spousal support. If that is the case then on the standardized for you have to check the box for deviation from recomendation and give a valid reason why. I had to do this in our pro se case and even though my stbx income was zero at the time the judge still signed off on it because we agreed to it.

[FortheChildren]

I see you are in OH. Be sure you have a clause making the support non modifiable. Otherwise just like child support and parenting time it can be revisited later in court even after the divorce is finalized.

You also mentioned in your post that you are paying child support. Are you paying the guideline recommendation or an amount you and your STBX agreed to? Reason I ask is child support is always modifiable and you STBX can always come after you asking for more if you are payinv less than state guidelines.

ALso what parenting time/custody did you agree to?

[hanzblinx]

Can the judge go against our agreement in our pro se dissolution and order me to pay spousal support

Can and will are two different things. I don't think the judge will. Doesn't mean the judge can't. If I were a judge I wouldn't want to waste my time screwing around with agreements that both parties agreed to. Waste of taxpayer money.

[minuette]

minouette, the language is:
"Neither party shall receive spousal support from the other and each party waives all claims for spousal support. This provision shall not be modifiable. The Court shall not retain jurisdiction over spousal support".
and I did include it in our separation agreement.

Per Ohio Revised Code 3105.18, that sounds consistent with the code (but I'm no lawyer; you should still get it eyeballed by an attorney). My only suggestion would be to reference that specific section of code - for example:

"Neither party shall receive spousal support from the other and each party waives all claims for spousal support. Pursuant to Ohio Revised Code 3105.18, the parties agree that this provision shall not be modifiable and that the Court shall not retain jurisdiction over spousal support".