crying poor

[higherroad]

so mom claims she cant pay the kids expenses anymore.

however, for xmas break off to napa with new paramour.

anyway to spin this when we go in front of judge in a couple weeks to get her to pay expenses?

[jerry2010]

She will probably claim her "knight in shining armor" is doing for her all the things that you should have and did not. You Brute You

[dadmisseskids]

My ex did this. Because of crying poor, the judge made me responsible for NJ's PC bills and the custody evaluation. That total is $2400. The thing is, NJ lied to the judge and I was able to prove it. Now we have a separate trial for this specific issue after the custody hearing. When the judge sees that NJ lied (being able to afford a lawyer that costs $275/hr but not being able to afford the PC at $125/hr) I'm hoping the judge slaps her with the portion ($2400) she is responsible for.

Most NJ's will always lie and cry poor. Most judges will favor them too.

anyway to spin this when we go in front of judge in a couple weeks to get her to pay expenses?

It's going to be difficult. In my case, I didn't have to do much research to show that NJ lied. Most of my evidence is from older court records and bills NJ has submitted in court.

If you want to go in there and say that NJ is lying about her expenses but have no proof, you'll look like a wacko. On the other hand, if she says she can't afford to buy them pants but has a car payment that is $400/mo, that may be something the judge looks at.

I'd look at this from another point of view. If you're giving the full amount of CS and NJ still can't afford your kids, I'd petition for full custody because your ex can't support them financially.

The bigger question is, what exactly is your ex saying she can't afford?

[Fatheroffour]

If you're giving the full amount of CS and NJ still can't afford your kids, I'd petition for full custody because your ex can't support them financially.

This is an argument that I believed worked in my favor. I was able to show that ex's income + my guideline CS = lower standard of living for the children as opposed to my income + minimal CS = higher standard of living for the children and a better sustainable financial model for all concerned.

I don't know how far that would have gone with the judge but the GAL understood the truth in it.

[Thoughts?]

What expenses is she obligated for specifically in orders? The more specific the better, like is she blowing off her share of medical care?

If you pursue this, go for mod &/or enforcement, particularly if she's failing to pay her share of med bills. Seek aggressive discovery to get her credit card bills & "all bills & plane fare receipts & hotel receipts for travel out of state during month XYZ." You then use it to nail her on the stand on her luxury spends. Go for at least 6 months of CC history to dig up other luxury spends. (I found seeing several hundred dollars spends at Victoria's Secret while someone's not paying ortho bills tends to get judge's attention quickly.)

[higherroad]

thoughts you are right on target. i was thinking the same thing and so is my lawyer. the question is really ok so you cant pay for your kids....where are you spending your money. i am not going to focus on how much she makes because it can be hidden, what i am going to focus on is why are you spending money on these things and not your kids.

as for the other posters, i have decision making. there is no cs. she is not paying for medical, activities, camp etc all outlined in msa. what is hard is she just makes it confusing for everyone by listing expenses she thinks i owe her prior to the new msa when i was paying cs.

her strategy...confuse and make it as crazy as people so people just throw up the arms and quit. confuse the judge.

thoughts - how do you get their cc statements. if you get them from her she can just give you the clean ones. can you get a credit check done that lists all of her cards? is there anything else besides cc that i should look to get. what about the fact that she spend 3k in rent and 750 on car payments but wont pay for her kids expenses because she is living way beyond her means. is that an argument?

[Thoughts?]

thoughts - how do you get their cc statements. if you get them from her she can just give you the clean ones. can you get a credit check done that lists all of her cards? is there anything else besides cc that i should look to get. what about the fact that she spend 3k in rent and 750 on car payments but wont pay for her kids expenses because she is living way beyond her means. is that an argument?

You go for a very thorough but deliberately reasonable discovery. You ask in a Request for Production her credit card, checking account, saving account & money market statements for the last six months. You ask for receipts for airfare and hotel that she not only paid but where she resided, making the wording specific to turn up anything where new boytoy fronted the cash.

You keep it reasonable in length -- recent history -- to avoid her objecting you are being punitive. Assume you will have to go before a judge with a Motion to Compel, which you chase after she fails to hit her discovery dates.

Talk to your lawyer about specifics on local procedure. You get a longer window on discovery if you are chasing a mod versus an enforcement, as enforcement hearings can usually get scheduled much earlier, so discovery assocaited with mods can be more thorough. However, you can create a bit more of an adrenaline rush on her by going the enforcement route.

Also, make sure you chase fees. In some states, like TX, award of fees is mandatory if the other party fails to pay their ordered share of medical expenses, as the law assumes it's defacto denial of medical care for a child. Even if not in your state, it will likely pi$$ off the judge against her.

[kmich91262]

What I find compelling (i.e. when they say they are too poor to pay for anything) is when in one breath they say they are too poor but in the very next sentence talk about going to the casino, gambling, and drinking the night before. Ah, okay so you can gamble but cant afford anything else Something doesn't fit. Fits my NJ to a tee.

[jerry2010]

What I find compelling (i.e. when they say they are too poor to pay for anything) is when in one breath they say they are too poor but in the very next sentence talk about going to the casino, gambling, and drinking the night before. Ah, okay so you can gamble but cant afford anything else Something doesn't fit. Fits my NJ to a tee.

Personally I look at mine with the same menality as she is wearing nice clothes, nice car, eating out and stuff. Whereas I am driving a 15 year old car with a 150000 miles, shop at thrift store and wal mart, and if McDonalds is eating out well I guess I do that some with my boys.

I just think in the long run the lifestyle I have with benefit my children.

[higherroad]

so is the argument-

about where mom is spending her money

or

is she making any money. (this she can fake)