Antisocial Personality Disorder

Parental Alienation Syndrome, Malicious Mother Syndrome, dealing with the ex, and various other non-legal concerns throughout the process.

Antisocial Personality Disorder

Postby dadmisseskids » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:24 am

I'd like to know if any your ex's were ordered to get a psychological evaluation and if that evaluation stated your ex had Antisocial Personality Disorder. If so, how did that relate to your custody dispute?
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Re: Antisocial Personality Disorder

Postby 4My3Girls » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:11 pm

Mine was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder, later downgraded to merely having a Dissociative Idently "Problem", but here's the issue in California: Does your NJ's disorder get in the way of her parenting: By that I mean, does it make her "unfit", in the eyes of the law? Are the kids fed, clothed, and have a roof over thier heads? That's the standard in California. Any more than that and the parent is considered "fit" (barring any extreme physical abuse or sex acts in front of the kids). There is nothing illegal about being a bad mom. It's really f**ked up, but that's the law.

I'm not familiar with the specifics of Antisocial Personality Disorder, but based on the name, I'd venture a guess that it does not rise to the level which would make her "unfit".
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Re: Antisocial Personality Disorder

Postby dadmisseskids » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:41 pm

Kids are fed, well clothed and have a roof over their heads.

However, it's a question of mental fitness, not a physical one. For example, she forced D7 to lie about being sexually abused so she could keep custody of my two kids. She makes S6's ADHD appear (or try to make it appear) worse than it actually is. One of the traits of Malingering, which is a trait of ADPD, is "Malingering is a medical term that refers to fabricating or exaggerating the symptoms of mental or physical disorders for a variety of "secondary gain" motives..."

Second to that is her lies. And they aren't just little white lies, they are big ones. Also, she tries to alienate my kids against me (this was cited by the CE a few times in his report)

So, to answer your question, yes, my kids are physically fine. However, raising kids is not just about seeing them grow physically, you want to see them grow the correct way mentally as well.
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Mommy has Borderline Personality Disorder? She's very difficult to deal with? Buy this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0056JX46W
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Re: Antisocial Personality Disorder

Postby 4My3Girls » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:50 pm

I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, the courts are not so caring about your kids emotional well being. You have a meeting with the conselor coming up, no? All you can to do is bring it up, have actual PROOF of how your NJ's problems bring real harm to the kids, and then hope for the best.

Hang in there.
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Re: Antisocial Personality Disorder

Postby dadmisseskids » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:04 pm

I guess this is where my question lies. Should I point this out or not even bother bringing it up? The meeting with this doctor is for S6 so I won't say anything about it then. I was thinking about bringing it up when we have our next joint meeting with our PC because the PC wants to know what issues we have with one another.

I'm just confused on how I should bring it up. I don't want to appear NJish but at the same time I know this is affecting my kids and my relationship with them so I'm at odds on how to bring it up in the correct way.

Oh, and the actual proof I have is two police reports and the custody evaluators report. As far as proof goes, I don't know what better proof I can get.
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Re: Antisocial Personality Disorder

Postby Jehr » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:04 pm

This is one of those things that may vary a bit from state to state. The prevailing theme in most states from what I can gather is that courts don't put much stock in a label unless you can directly tie the disorder to the best interests of the kids. This is best done by associating an already-observed pattern of behavior with a negative impact that has already occured on the kids.

However, you really need to dig into your state's code on this one. For example, in my state, GA state code 19-9-3(a)(3) (as recently modified and effective 1 Jan 2008) (see page 4) outlines 17 factors or guidelines that a judge may use to help him determine the childs best interests. Factor I reads: "The mental and physical health of each parent." So in GA, a diagnosis of mental health is legislated as a legitimate discriminator that a judge may use during his decision making process. Keep in mind that it is only one factor out of 17. Going back to the original point, if you can attribute behaviors to impacts on the children, then you can use that to influence some of the other 16 factors. I think in your case you might be able to do just that.

That said, state code generally doesn't mandate what factors a GAL or CE would use in coming up with their recommendation, and even if they do follow the guidelines, there's no guidance as to how to weight the factors against each other. So a GAL or CE could at their discretion put a great amount or little to no weight behind such a diagnosis. I think in most cases, how a judge weighs these factors will probably be consistent with how the GAL or CE weighs them, as judges won't often trump these parties.

Also to consider is that judges are wildcards. They have to follow the law, but the law in this area affords them a great amount of discretion in these cases. That said, a judge's individual biases and past experiences with personality disorders come into play. The label that comes with a psychiatric diagnosis may significantly impact one judges decision making process, or it may have no weight at all until you tie it to the impacts on the children (especially in cases where there is no CE or GAL).

Consequently, it's hard, if not impossible, to give a blanket answer to that question that is universally right. In your specific case DMK, it's clear that your judge is biased and is abusing her discretion, and you're going to have to appeal her at some point in the future to get a fair shake. So, the question you should be asking is how best to frame your case for an appeal? That drives another question...what angle are you going to use to attack the judge, misapplication of the law, or abuse of discretion?

If you go for misapplication of the law, then you need to see if PA has a code similar to GA, and see if your state has legislated factors for determining custody. Then, you need to see how the specific language is worded...does it say the judge MUST consider those factors, or the judge MAY consider those factors? If the language is MAY, then building a case around this diagnosis with an intent on appealing on misapplication of the law is probably fruitless. If you're going for abuse of discretion, then you need to look at those factors (if they exist in your state's code), and build your case so you get professional third parties when possible saying as many of those factors are in your favor as possible, which will make framing an appeal on abuse of discretion easier to build and argue. In that case, I would make sure to introduce as much as you can, including a diagnosis, but I wouldn't spend too much time on any one argument as if it were a silver bullet in determining your case. Of course, consult with your attorney first on this part of your strategy before moving forward. Just make sure your attorney's strategy is clearly defined as to whether you are more interested in trying to win this round (if you think you have a chance with your judge), or if you are going to frame it for an appeal, and if so, on what grounds are you going to appeal.
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Re: Antisocial Personality Disorder

Postby Lawrence » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:54 pm

In my case the issue of custody had more to do with how she parented the kids, regardless of her problems. The more problems she had, and still did a good job of parenting, was actually in her favor. Odd but true. But it was also in my favor that I didn't try to take the kids away from mom, so much as refuse to let the kids be taken away from me. Lots of reverse logic and alternative strategies in my case.

In your case I think your dealings with the PC are the way to go. Effectively steering around the courts that have been unfair to you, into an area of a realtively neutral decision maker where you have some fair say.

If anything, as NJ tries to show you are <and bad thing>, given her penchant for accusations, it opens the door for you to bring in other "experts". You effectively steer the debate back to what is wrong with her in the greater context. Maybe you can force her to get some help... I dunno.

To this day, my NJ will not talk with any type of counselor whatsoever. I have, D14 has, but NJ still complains of emotional distress, and simply returns to the Dr. for meds.
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Re: Antisocial Personality Disorder

Postby dadmisseskids » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:07 pm

So I asked my lawyer this question
Jehr wrote:If you go for misapplication of the law, then you need to see if PA has a code similar to GA, and see if your state has legislated factors for determining custody.
and PA does have a code similar to GA. But instead of 17 points, there is only one: The best interests of the kids. :lol: I'd say that gives a judge a ton of leeway to rule howevery they feel like on that day.
"Success depends on your backbone, not your wishbone"

Mommy has Borderline Personality Disorder? She's very difficult to deal with? Buy this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0056JX46W
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Re: Antisocial Personality Disorder

Postby defaultuser » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:23 pm

I think Jehr was correct in his opinion about a pattern of behavior.

It really doesn't matter why the NJ does these things. It only matter that she does them and they are not good for the kids.

I know you've basically shown her pattern of behavior in court, but maybe not well enough.

Have you presented evidence, incident by incident, with testimony of yourself and others, along with documents that prove her bad behavior? The idea being that you present so much tedious evidence and details of her behavior that the judge would be less likely to ignore it.

The judge may be able to ignore evidence, especially when the NJ is spewing lies, but can they ignore a mountain of evidence? Figure out ways of baiting her into senarios where you can prove her actions are out of line.
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Re: Antisocial Personality Disorder

Postby Lawrence » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:37 pm

defaultuser wrote:The judge may be able to ignore evidence, especially when the NJ is spewing lies, but can they ignore a mountain of evidence? Figure out ways of baiting her into senarios where you can prove her actions are out of line.


This is part of the catch-22 for DMK.

In proving that NJ is an incapable mother, we are also effectively trying to separate the kids from their mother. Judge won't take kids from mom. So proving mom is incapable becomes a snipe hunt in that this judge won't allow that evidence into the judgements of separating kids from mom no matter how bad mom is.

What DMK is doing, now, instead of chasing that rabbit, is taking an alternative strategy with a PC in which he is simpy arguing for fair ajudication of his part of the agreement.

Showing that NJ is not following the court order is an issue of contempt of court. If judge doesn't rule in his favor on this, and hasn't, then going back to court becomes a waste of time... so... back to the PC and pursuing a third party to agree with him. If PC agrees and sides with DMK it takes the decision off the shoulders of the judge.

Sounds crazy. It is. But I think DMK is on the right track with pursuing the PC option in this case, and getting the proper Psych Evals in place.
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