tech/computer questions

[charlestheguy]

Hi, new to this board. Contemplating at this point, tired of feeling used for my money. Had a few tech questions:
1.Do any of you have concerns the NJ could access your OneNote/Google Docs to see what you are up to? How do you make certain she cannot get in?
2. I strongly suspect she is on the computer alot of the time she is "with" the kids. Is it legal to have a computer forensics company access what web sites she was on, for how long, and at what time? It would help to show she is not really paying attention to the kids when she is with them. I don't really care about reading her emails.
Thanks for any input.

[Fatheroffour]

What would be your goal in the divorce? Primary custody?

If so, you should change your focus because what she is doing on the computer or what web sites she visits will play a minimal role in your divorce and custody determinations.

Your focus should be on how involved and indispensable you are in your children's day to day lives. If you want to be designated the primary caregiver by the courts then you should be acting in that role now while nothing is preventing you.


As for the legality of hiring someone to stalk her web presence, as long as its a shared computer install the software and do it yourself.

[a dad]

1. Change the password and only login from a machine she cannot access.

2. Legal - if it's is a family computer. Helpful - probably not. Who's to say she cannot multi-task. And how is it detrimental to the kids.

[daddyb]

agree fully with Fatheroffour; disagree with a dad that it's probably not helpful / discouragement.

Having a logger that is taking screen shots and logging keystrokes can vastly help collect and (possibly uncover unknown) financial information and other information that can come in play at some point in time. Always take steps to be prepared for anything and everything. Install the software. Even if you decide to not spend the time going through it's logs, it's there. One less regret to possibly have later.

Does she have your google password? If she does, then you need to change it or start using a second account. If she would be suspect of you changing the password, start using a second account. Google makes it very easy to use multiple accounts and actually designed features encouraging this. What do you have in OneNote? I would stop using it and move to using just google services for anything you wouldn't want her to see.

[a dad]

DISCLAIMER
Apply cautiosly. Installing spyware on business devices can lead to legal ramifications.
Shared devices may contain spyware that can copy your private information. Use at your own risk.
If problems persist see an attorney.

More details can be found at forum.dadsdivorce.com

[BartSimpson]

A few years ago this was a regular question - almost weekly - and it became known as "Spy-vs-Spy".

The problem with this spying behavior is that the information takes on an inappropriate value-added because of the means in which it was obtained. Simply put, guys would put too much value on the information since they took such a risk to obtain it. From a tiny fragment of a fossil, they would construct an entire dinosaur.

Dad's would get all wrapped around the axle because they "discovered" something by snooping, when it didn't matter to their case in chief - the best interests of the children. They would put so much effort and risk into looking for something, their minds would play tricks on their conclusions.

Here is an example of the mindset that sends a Dad down the Rabbithole:

Having a logger that is taking screen shots and logging keystrokes can vastly help collect and (possibly uncover unknown) financial information and other information that can come in play at some point in time. Always take steps to be prepared for anything and everything. Install the software. Even if you decide to not spend the time going through it's logs, it's there. One less regret to possibly have later.

Even if you don't look at the logs? Who is going to install a keylogger and not go through the resulting information? How many Dads discover wifey has a secret Swiss Bank Account? None - zilch. How many Dads discover some gossip and flirtation with other men and get lost in the results? Most.


Every divorce is different, and there may be rare reasons to keep track of wifey on the computer - but none of the information will see the light of a courtroom because it was gathered by extra-legal means. As a general rule, it is a useless waste of time and energy. Spend that time on other more meaningful things, like with the kids activities and Journaling it.

[daddyb]

Sorry, but I've been done with my divorce that was a tooth and nail fight over the course of three plus years for quite some time. Although I had the backing of child care providers, teachers, couselors, and more, they thought I was wasting my time, effort, and money to ultimately lose my kids in an unjust court system. They were wrong! I faught on and I've had full custody for nearly eight years now. I know I'm new here on this board, but that doesn't automatically mean my input is less valuable. Having spyware on our computer did help. No, the computer logs themselves are not used. But information from the logs did help during depositions and discovery. I installed software and kept it running for three months before we separated. I did not look at it until after. And the only time I spent going through the logs was when my kids were with the ex.

How many Dads discover wifey has a secret Swiss Bank Account? None - zilch.

true. But how many Dads have to defend themselves against an ex trying to squeeze every dollar out of them that the ex spent AFTER seperation?

How many Dads discover some gossip and flirtation with other men and get lost in the results? Most.

true. If you're not ready to realize the relationship was/is broken, you will when doing this. If you're not ready to emotionally deal with it. Don't do it. If you're not ready to move on. Don't do it. If you do it, realize that there's no turning back; realize that by doing this, you yourself have crossed the lines of acceptable marital behavior and are contributing to the broken status of your relationship. If you do it, you must have other reasons besides finding out about other guys. Infedelity doesn't mean didly squat when determining custody. Infedelity doesn't mean didly squat when dividing property and debt (typically). If you are using spyware for any reasons involving infedelity, you are wasting your time.

[BartSimpson]

I'm not clear on why you recommend keyloggers, but you go on with a description of the vast majority of Dads as they first arrive here, and clearly tell them not to do it:

They don't know if the relationship is broken, they are told that they are what is broken.
They are not ready to deal with it emotionally, because it all happened so fast, often in a day.
They have not moved on, whatever the hell that means, because the disaster just happened.
They lack clear definition of acceptable marital behavior because of wifey's crazy arguments.
They feel betrayed by someone they trusted, the infidelity shows they have been played for a fool.

Daddyb, it's not because your new that your words are less valuable, it's because the vast majority of men who come here are not in that mental place you describe as a necessary qualification for using a keylogger. You and I agree - except I contend that most men here are who you would recommend not to do it. Stick around, you have much to offer, but meet some of the fellas and get to know the room.

Keylogging is like bobbing for a tootsie roll in a punchbowl full of turds; you can only tell the difference by the taste. Finding that one piece of useful information requires eating a lot of < poo poo >.

It's for the same reasons we tell Dads to get off Facebook. It will drive them crazy.

I'm making a note here that our benefactors have several great articles posted on this site if you want an actual lawyer's opinion on the usefulness of keyloggers - spoiler alert: it's not a tactic they support.

[secondhalf]

I guess I think any sort of organized "spying" on the NJ takes you away from what is really important; spending quality time with your kids. In many cases a NJ will "hang" herself without any effort on your part.

[spritom]

When people are on your side, it's called snooping. When on the other side, it's called spying. Either way, the tools of the trade are the same.

If NJ has physical access to the computer, then anything that computer does is not safe, including online passwords. It doesn't matter if she's not a tech-whiz...she only has to bat her eyes at some nerd/geek at work. 40-minutes alone is about average to get every last thing on the computer and also to set it up to spy on you.

For accessing what she does on the computer, it's technically doable to see what sites she visits and roughly see how often she changes web pages (which assuming she's on the computer the whole time) but it doesn't really show at what point she stopped...just shows when she stopped bringing up new pages.

A downside is that if she suspects there's a keylogger on the system, it can be possible to determine that one is on there...which can lead to accusations of you being controlling in court.

A second downside is several people that have done it reported themselves getting swallowed up in it in an unhealthy way.

The Why
If you're looking at proving how much time she spends with the kids...very few courts won't care about this. Most courts don't even care if she's yelling at the kids, keeps them in filth, or hits them. So as for "spending time with them"...heh...you may as well buy a lottery ticket.
Second, courts will hate you for bringing computer-logs to them and you'll be accused as a controlling spy.

If you're looking to locate missing accounts, sure, the computer can be helpful, but you can't use it by itself as the proof. Only use that computer info to point you in the right direction to get the proof some other way. Second, if you log into some online account of hers, then many states have this as a crime.